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Game!!!
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Carr
Battle Fowl


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Battles: 1867
Location: Virginia

BattlePosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reaker, bro, Gameness comes ONLY from its breeding, if you have it, you must keep in by breeding no dunghill into your line. Gameness is a inherited characteristic., it is only achieved by preserving that first among all other characteristics
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Giang Chau
Battle Fowl


Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Battles: 1291
Location: Southern Louisiana

BattlePosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. To consistantly get quality game birds you must stick to that characteristic in breeding. Now you must remember also just cause parents are game that not all the offspring will be what you expected. If they were culling would be unnessessary. This brings me back to my point on where you set your goals. If you had the best pair which was ring proven and truely tested and paired them to breed. then the chicks you prize of your fabulous pair would be in your mind as top. Yes, seems like it till you're beaten down time and time again cause each time you was taken down you made an excuse to cover your own breeding mistakes. The greatest excuse in the world, no matter how many people you fool, willnot get you better birds. Good, proven, true game stock and careful time taking and testing breedings is the only way to get great birds with "true game" not the other game spoken as"game enough to play"!!! And I'm sure some will agree and some will not but do yourself better stop and think where is the abision in your life!!! Aim higher than your neighbor and watch him follow instead of lead!!!!
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general
Chick


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Battles: 228

BattlePosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CarrLH wrote:
Reaker, bro, Gameness comes ONLY from its breeding, if you have it, you must keep in by breeding no dunghill into your line. Gameness is a inherited characteristic., it is only achieved by preserving that first among all other characteristics

I know from speaking to reaker that he knows about the importance of breeding.I think he means by "no matter how it's bred "is with regards to kennel blindness say,where for example people like certain lines of gamedog over another or some like certain peoples line of gamefowl.or some say shamo are are gamer than asil.Like me saying eg"no game dog ever came out of reaker kennel"Game must exist initially.
Another thing must be mentioned on this thread is ,when does game actually materialises in the contest? Does a superior animal show gameness when it destroys a lesser one in 15min?
Personnally I think when people talk about adrenaline being the "fight or flight mechanism"I think gameness is when the flight mechanism is bred out and the fight is bred in.I think it's a chemical reaction that over rides the natural reaction to preserve ones life.And no I don t think it's stupidity or even close.When an outstanding animal destroys a lesser one in 15min how many times have people said regarding the winner"boy that's a game bird/dog/man"No it's not IMO.Ability is not gameness.The animal with the lesser ability is often the animal displaying greater gameness.
Imo it's going in,going on and staying on despite the outcome.If that outcome is death then add (dead)to the word game.IMO
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reacker kennels
Chick


Joined: 03 May 2010
Battles: 23

BattlePosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes general thats what a meant,sometimes i cant get it all out what im tryin to say and word it for people to understand,and no thats not a pete pet dog will it was a pet, but crop its ears and you tell me what it is and ill tell ya what it is.its nat a good pic.and ill tell ya how it is breed.and some of its ansitary.
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reacker kennels
Chick


Joined: 03 May 2010
Battles: 23

BattlePosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ps yes lads what has been said bout chactristics,proper game testin,what geane pool works with what and yes you do need to watch these things and also not keeping some real nice dog that has fancy coulours,and isnt game in other words kennel blinded just cuz you like colour and witch way it stands on a chain.
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JonLynch
Chick


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Battles: 192
Location: USofA

BattlePosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: The Kennel Blind Reply with quote

Reaker Kennels.
You have stepped in it again. You speak of Gameness yet offer things as Eye Color and facial markings as to describe a bloodline. Whom might I ask is kennel Blind... No offence to you or any one who feels the same but A dog breeds in percentages and if the offspring of said litter is not tested then you do not have your % all down and therefore are lying to yourself about the breeding. Take for example Ken Allens Double Grand CH. Tornado, a really awsome gyp and one that only comes in a lifetime but she didnt produce anything that was even close to her ABILITY. OK lets look at the difference in Garrets CH Jeep and Adams GrCH Zebo as they are close to the top of highest producing males on th Register Of Merit lists... Jeep whom produced many great dogs was only bred a few times to get the points needed to make the ROM top producing male. Zebo on the other hand had to be bred a whole lot to even get the title of ROM. So whom would you rather have bred to given the chance? A game Producing dog, or dog who just showed alot of mouth... drink
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Giang Chau
Battle Fowl


Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Battles: 1291
Location: Southern Louisiana

BattlePosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Game is game .... Either game or not. So none can be gamer than another.... If shown it lost game then it was skilled possibly but not game. Jon I agree just game in breeding is not enough but needed. A game animal plus great producing qualities combined must exist. Gameness is first and formost then skill worked into your line through breeding is in my opinion of what should be done. Through proper linebreeding then comes conformity. Hense comes usually a color that bases your line. Eli blood for example comes in two colors cause no other blood usually come in mr b's line. Same for birds a friend of mine can tell his birds apart from any counterfit saying otherwise, but only cause of propper and careful breeding and there confirmed but in past was propperly tested.
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"You can look all over and spend thousands to try to get better birds... When the whole time the best were already in the backyard" in so
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Stormer
Chick


Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Battles: 168
Location: Nomadic Irish Celt

BattlePosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palmer wrote:
If a knife or gaff bird dies 3 minutes into the fight and did not run, he was dead game. It does not mean he would not have run in 5 minutes. If an Aseel is game on day 2 but runs on day 3 he was probably still a good asil, but 3 days may be preferred. Too many times good orientals are boxed too young, improperly trained or improperly matched. The novice might blame the breed or the breeder and never himself. Watch many matches and you will learn to spot a bird that may run. Often you will see it in his eyes or movements. Pick your sport, breed the proper fowl for your sport, set your personal standards and do your part to get him ready. Do not participate in cruel tests of gameness. The Test is "within the rules" of your sport.
YFIS
There are so many folk on this website that don't know the difference between fighting ability & "dead game" if a gaff bird was to die 3 minutes into his first fight .... there would be no way of knowing either his fighting ability or if he was "dead game" ok. Now a gaff bird that wins multiple fights will tell you he has fighting ability in the pit, it's only when you retire him from fighting, to be used as a brood cock, that he is tested in various ways in order to find out if he is "dead game" .... if he passes the test, he becomes a brood cock & the next test after that, is if he can produce in the prood pen. The cockpit is there to show off the birds fighting ability only.
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USAGANOI
Chick


Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Battles: 797

BattlePosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

go to the "clashes of the masters" forum and check out those ganoi dons. so how tough they are but at the end the run in rounds 9-12 or so. thats consider game. try sparring your birds that long, you will see any bird has a breaking point. wash between rounds and play them like pit games. in this sport, there is winners and losers. if every bird is dead game, no one would win. it would be draws after draws. LOL

cock fighting countries like vietnam, thailand, and pakistan all try to do what everyone here is trying to do and everyone has probably had the same discussion and bred these birds for 30 to 40 years, but still there is winners and losers. birds will run at the breaking point.

at the end of the day, i always said, bring the birds to your pit to see the competition.
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Giang Chau
Battle Fowl


Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Battles: 1291
Location: Southern Louisiana

BattlePosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

USAganoi just cause two are true game doesn't mean it'll go tie. After game then come skill. The better fowl will prevail. As I said before I'm sure to say again everyones opinion will differ on this discussion. This statement was just my opinion also but your entitled to yours. I just hold my standards on fowl as high as I hold for myself.... Proudly!!!
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"You can look all over and spend thousands to try to get better birds... When the whole time the best were already in the backyard" in so
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USAGANOI
Chick


Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Battles: 797

BattlePosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree, but birds only can be game to certain point. that is my meaning.
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Giang Chau
Battle Fowl


Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Battles: 1291
Location: Southern Louisiana

BattlePosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I ask .... What do you consider that point?
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"You can look all over and spend thousands to try to get better birds... When the whole time the best were already in the backyard" in so
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USAGANOI
Chick


Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Battles: 797

BattlePosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

best way is to watch the movies on the "clash of the masters forum" watch the end of the clips. you will see.

or go to your local pit. watch when the other bird lose.
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Giang Chau
Battle Fowl


Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Battles: 1291
Location: Southern Louisiana

BattlePosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me end this by explaing how I get my assesment.... What u consider max game is what consider game... Everything else is by what you describe a personal assesment and to me I will not down grade no wording or create any to justify what happened before my eyes. In my opinion settling for anything less than the very best is giving up. That is why I think so many run today. Scales are nice and style is great but in the end only one thing matters ... Will I stay in the mix to feel the glory of victory or become soup cause I bet a high chance that most people will do this if one runs!!
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"You can look all over and spend thousands to try to get better birds... When the whole time the best were already in the backyard" in so
many words from a friend
http://www.ganoi.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=113417
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torogi asil
Chick


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Battles: 420
Location: La Trinidad,Benguet,Phil.

BattlePosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dead game asil not always a winner, i've seen some, very game but at the very end of the fight they some how can not endure the beating and the quit so they lose, i guess everybody have seen that in a fight, am sure i did, I don't know if you guys have seen that too,,,
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Giang Chau
Battle Fowl


Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Battles: 1291
Location: Southern Louisiana

BattlePosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quit as on run or quit as in can no longer fight?
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"You can look all over and spend thousands to try to get better birds... When the whole time the best were already in the backyard" in so
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http://www.ganoi.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=113417
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torogi asil
Chick


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Battles: 420
Location: La Trinidad,Benguet,Phil.

BattlePosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drink drink drink drink drink drink drink

Last edited by torogi asil on Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Giang Chau
Battle Fowl


Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Battles: 1291
Location: Southern Louisiana

BattlePosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I guess people have different definitions of game, well so be it. If it goes to have to be spoken to in a manner as this, why discuss anything with anyone. I just plainly asked a simple question cause evedently I just wanted to be sure. Quitting and the inability to go on is two different things to me... Was just assesing your views on the word... Go figure!
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"You can look all over and spend thousands to try to get better birds... When the whole time the best were already in the backyard" in so
many words from a friend
http://www.ganoi.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=113417
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torogi asil
Chick


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Battles: 420
Location: La Trinidad,Benguet,Phil.

BattlePosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drink drink drink drink drink drink drink

Last edited by torogi asil on Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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USAGANOI
Chick


Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Battles: 797

BattlePosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

giang chau,

one thing we do agree on is game is important thats why the asian games is a very competitive sport.
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torogi asil
Chick


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
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BattlePosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

game is not that important to me, I prefer the so called " PERFORMANCE " for example I will spar my birds, I have to look which perform the best in thats what I will pick, train and keep to fight in the pit, , everybody have their own way of selecting birds for fight, how you do yours?

Last edited by torogi asil on Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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general
Chick


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Battles: 228

BattlePosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If ye can get both that's what the greats are made from.Dead game is dead at the end of the day.If ye get an excellant performance/style coupled with gameness that's it cornered.If ye get such an animal producing similar if not better than itself then you don't get any better and that's what everyone is striving for,perfection.
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general
Chick


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Battles: 228

BattlePosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If ye can get both that's what the greats are made from.Dead game is dead at the end of the day.If ye get an excellant performance/style coupled with gameness that's it cornered.If ye get such an animal producing similar if not better than itself then you don't get any better and that's what everyone is striving for,perfection.
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Daniele
Divine Fowl


Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Battles: 9304
Location: Italy, Roma

BattlePosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rt4invn wrote:
So over the past few years, I have had all sorts of bloodlines and this is what I learned about gameness:
A bird is game when he is showed in his best health, during the fight he stays in the game exchanging blows and still stays in the game during rests between rounds.
Now if he doesn't win, he will sit or call it sleep due to the punishment or lack of training but will not cry out or run and that for me is gameness even if he lost.


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torogi asil
Chick


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
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Location: La Trinidad,Benguet,Phil.

BattlePosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: Game!!! Reply with quote

[quote="Giang Chau"]Seems that I've seen that the definition of "game" differs from person to person. My definition of the words is simple ... Won't run or lose any faith in itself to continue on. But seems some say it's partial to the sports. If anyone feel different can they please explain.... Cause I'm confused!!! I believe in any style of play if you game the you'll stick in there to the end. Or maybe I'm just to picky? Lol[/quote]



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